[wilhelmtux-discussion] Fw: [WWWEDU] Free software consortium: Presentation of the Social Govening Body (re Alex Schroeder's message on FSC packages forgovernments)

Claude Almansi claude.almansi at bluewin.ch
Sam Jun 28 22:36:32 CEST 2003


Hi Zäme

This is the material on reactions to Free Software Consortium I forwarded to
Giuliano

Claude

----- Original Message -----
From: "Claude Almansi" <claude.almansi at bluewin.ch>
To: "giuliano gennaio" <giugen at tiscali.it>
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [WWWEDU] Free software consortium: Presentation of the Social
Govening Body


<<From: "giuliano gennaio" <giugen at tiscali.it>
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: [WWWEDU] Free software consortium: Presentation of the Social
Govening Body


(...)

I m part of that mailing list and really , i did not see any message  that
were publicily talking about the FSC....
can you just forward to me any of them?>>


Which mailing list do you mean, Giuliano? there are 488 hits if you enter
<<free software consortium Off-Topic "free software consortium" >> in
Google:

http://www.google.ch/search?as_q=free+software+consortium+Off-Topic&num=10&h
l=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&btnG=Google+Suche&as_epq=free+software+consortium&as_
oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitese
arch=

and 67 if you add "spam":
http://www.google.ch/search?as_q=free+software+consortium++spam+free-softwar
e-consortium&num=50&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&btnG=Google+Suche&as_epq=Off+Top
ic+&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as
_sitesearch= .

Look at the examples below: I don't think that it is just my subjective
personal opinion that FSC rubbed people's hair the wrong way - and big way -
by posting the same message on all pro-free lists and lugs they could get
hold of in December.

These lists have been passing word that FSC was using spamming techniques,
have been blocking the addresses of people who posted the pro FSC messages.

Wake up, Giuliano: spam was invented at the time of Arpanet and caused an
outcry among academics there, back then. People in the pro-free lists are
the inheritors of this academic tradition, and they get particularly pissed
off when spamming is done in the name of the Free movement.

If you want to have an effect through a mailing list, especially in the Free
and educational environments, you must play by common "buona crianza" called
netiquette: first you pay attention to what people are discussing, then you
try intervening in an existing discussion if you have anything to contribute
to it, and only then you can propose something in your own interest, but
adapting the content to each list's "culture and tradition".

Sure it takes time. Maybe the first time no one will pay attention. Leave it
at that. Wait till the discussion returns your way.

Please be frank: how many messages did you read at WWWEDU? What did you
learn from them?

(...)
Signing in to a list and barging in with a message that has nothing to do
with the topics discussed is the surest way to be given the cold shoulder -
and not only at that list. Think of lists as parties where people meet: some
of them go to various parties. Off-topic posting is the equivalent of
drunken and disorderly behavior, so people pass on word from party to party.
The evidence below is quite eloquent. So why don't you try to blend in a
little at the lists you signed in for?

Cheers

Claude

http://www.linux.lu/pipermail/help/2002-December/000041.html
<< I'm not sure how to qualify this.
> We would like to invite you to be a founding members of the FSC either as
a
> Consultant and/or an Agent.
That sounds interresting... kind of (wait for the rest)
I must say, I haven't visited the site, so all I'm juging on is this
(blatantly advertising and commercial) message.
> Free Software Consortium is a multinational consortium established to link
the
> companies and the independent consultants that use and promote free
software.
Cool enough
> By joining to Free Software Consortium you or your company will have the
> following benefits:
>
> 1. Possibility of being hired by other Consortium members.
huh... assuming I was a consultant, I might be hired by whoever pays my
fee...
> 2. Possibility of hiring other Consortium members.
which I can all the same
unless we're talking Guild-like syndicate which says "we only work for
members, we only hire members"...
> 3. Use of the Consortium image and name with your clients.
'K
> 4. Use of the Consortium's resources like Publicity Brochures, Business
Cards,
> Banners for presentations and events, financial presentations, publicity
big deal !?
> 5. Representation of the FS Consortium in your area to share
administrative,
> legal and marketing resources between the Consultant members in your area.
bof, but the real thing comes here :-))
> Free Software Consortium will establish a contract with an Agent company
which
> will have exclusive representation in it's area, in charge of organizing
the
> consultants in the area.  This Agent company will provide the
administrative
> services, marketing and sales with the local customers.
'K
> >From the business generated by the Free Software Consortium, the Agent
company
> will receive 20% of the value of the contract, and the Consultant or
> Consulting company will receive 80%.
Wow!
that's cool... can I be the agent?  can I get 20% of everything?
can I hire myself and get 100% of my fee?
> The Free Software Consortium is developing a new business model and
invites
> you to join as a founding member and contribute in developing this new
business
I'm reserving my judgment, but it doesn't look like a "new business
model"... it looks like an old hoax.
May be I'm just too negative?
What do you say fellow list members?
What's your gut reaction and first reaction to this kind of proposal?
This raises another interresting point rel. to the list's managing of e-mail
adresses and reply-to...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but anyone can subscribe to the list...  there is
no control?
and anyone subscribing to the list gets all the messages... with our e-mail
adresses...
What a wonderful way to collect Spam-targets...
Serge [Marelli] (in favour of adress munging!)>>

http://list.nmlug.org/nmlug/2002-December/msg00010.html and
http://list.nmlug.org/nmlug/2002-December/msg00011.html (repeated below :
see http://www.nmlug.org/pipermail/nmlug/2002-December/005160.html)

http://www.linif.org/pipermail/discussion/2002-December/000210.html and
http://www.linif.org/pipermail/discussion/2002-December/000211.html:
<< *sigh*
My apologies.  You would think keeping the posting set to members
only would stop SPAM, but these guys actually subscribed.  I have
to wonder how they sort out their actual desired responses from
all the list mail they must get.  Coincidently, I found another
SPAM subscription and eliminated it too.
Woody [Green] (...)>>

http://archive.lug.boulder.co.us/bymonth/2002.12/msg00373.html
<< [lug] THIS IS SPAM (was: Re: [Off-Topic] Free Software Consortium in
search of Consultants and Agents in your area.)
(...)
 Ugh.  This place subscribed to all our lists and then sent this message
through, on one list multiple times even...
I've banned their site, I suggest that anyone who gets this actively
avoid this place.
Sean [Reifschneider]>>

http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/peterboro/2002-December/000280.html
<< Consorcio Software Libre <info1 at csl.cc> wrote:
> We would like to invite you to be a founding members of the FSC either as
a
> Consultant and/or an Agent.
A discussion on the lugmasters list has found that this is spam, but the
project behind hasn't been conclusively shown to be good or bad... anyone
seen them before? [MJ Ray]
(no follow-up: if one of you posted
http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/peterboro/2002-December.txt , why didn't
s/he pick up the opportunity to explain better?)

http://www.uniqsys.com/pipermail/talug/2002-December/002002.html
<< According to the eNIC website, "The "CC" in
dot-cc refers to a tiny island chain in the
Indian Ocean."
"Though it may not mean much to dot-cc customers
who only know of its world-wide functionality,
the "cc" of dot-cc is technically a designation
for the Cocos (Keeling) Islands, a territory of
Australia located in the Indian Ocean with fewer
than 700 residents."
Apparently, this TLD has been hijacked (for lack
of a better term) and is being billed as ".CC:
The Universal Internet Address".
Doing a quick google on "consorcio .cc" revealed
messages in several languages on behalf of the
Consorcio Software Libre, many pointing to pages
under the www.fsc.cc address.  So, they seem to
making a real effort at global organization.  I
would quickly forgive a weakness in the English
language if it weren't for the other glaring
problems with their proposition that Jeremy
kindly took the time to enumerate.
(...)
Jason [Bechtel]>>

http://lug.boulder.co.us/pipermail/meta/Week-of-Mon-20021223/000332.html
<< [BLUGMETA] [Off-Topic] Free Software Consortium in search of Consultants
and Agents in your area. (fwd from: info3 at csl.cc) Sean Reifschneider
meta at lug.boulder.co.us
Mon, 23 Dec 2002 11:59:50 -0700
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
This e-mail recently hit all the lists on our server, including Hacking
Society, BLUG, and NCLUG mailing lists.  They are actually subscribing
before sending the message, so it goes through quite easily.
I've set up mail blocking any senders with @csl.cc in the envelope.
Sean
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From: Consorcio Software Libre <info3 at csl.cc>
Reply-To: info3 at csl.cc
Organization: Consorcio Software Libre
To: hackingsociety at lists.community.tummy.com
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Subject: [HackSoc] [Off-Topic] Free Software Consortium in search of
Consultants and Agents in your area.
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We would like to invite you to be a founding members of the FSC either as a
Consultant and/or an Agent.
http://www.fsconsortium.com [etc: the same message sent by fsc to all
pro-free lists in December]>>


https://secure.rvglug.org/pipermail/rvglug/2002-December/001879.html
<< > We would like to invite you to be a founding members of the FSC either
> as a Consultant and/or an Agent.
> http://www.fsconsortium.com
the "fsc" website is hosted on a vosn.net ip, and this email apparently
came from a vosn.net email server.  vosn.net claims to take spam
seriously, so....ethan? [C J Meidlinger]>>

http://lists.bcvnet.com/pipermail/nanlug/2002-December/000027.html
<< All,
another spammer in the group. Whatever consortium they call themselves,
business advertisement has no place here and I have removed the message,
removed the poster from the group and put their e-mail address on a ban
list. That should do for now.
(...)
-Ruedi [Birenheide]>> (in response to "
http://lists.bcvnet.com/pipermail/nanlug/2002-December/000026.html )


http://clue.denver.co.us/pipermail/clue-admin/2002-December/001425.html
<<  They got our lists too.  Comments?
Sean set up mail blocking any senders with @csl.cc in the envelope.
We could probably do the same.  The easiest responce would be to
unsubscribe them from the list and leave it at that.
Lynn [Danielson]>> (See Sean Reifschneider's messages above about FSC)

http://mailman.efn.org/pipermail/eug-lug/2002-December/000962.html
<< On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Jacob Meuser wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 12:36:58PM -0600, Consorcio Software Libre wrote:
> > developing a new business model
>
> Sounds like common practice to me, just worded a little differently.
>
Not all that common for a Costa Rican consortium to try to expand
to Eugene via Vancouver, B.C.  At least that's what looking a little at
their sites suggests to me.
 There are at least two of their userID's subscribed to eug-lug.
I'd want to see more from one or both of them before writing them off as
spam or scam.
(...)
Ed Craig>>

http://www.nmlug.org/pipermail/nmlug/2002-December/005160.html
<< dlark at spinn.net wrote:
>
> <BIG SNIP>
> My problem is/was with the message was that it was spam.
> Maybe well (poorly?? Don) intentioned spam. But spam
> nevertheless. I just have this personal thing where I never,
> ever respond to spam. This is no different.
>
I responded because our NMLUG keeps replies to itself. I didn't send
them anything back, much as I wanted to. [FLAME ON, troops!! ;-)] I'm
commenting _on_ it, not replying to it. :)
> If they were are really on the up and up, why not post to
> LWN, LinuxToday, or even kuro5hin.org (where their politics
> might be better matched ;-)).
>
Or (horror of horrors!) _buy_ an ad. I thought it funny that they called
it [Off-Topic] when they sent it to a Linux/BSD list. Just shows how
wide their SPAM send must be.
It's interesting how the notion of 'free' twists and turns. They USE
free software and they TAKE our Internet bandwidth.
Don Wilde >>

http://www.google.ch/search?q=cache:eYEPsqjNkFgJ:www.mail-archive.com/gnhlug
-discuss%40mail.gnhlug.org/msg01849.html+free+software+consortium++spam+free
-software-consortium+%22Off+Topic+%22&hl=de&ie=UTF-8 (I used the cache
because I couldn't access the main site)
<< some lowlife wrote:
>We would like to invite you to be a founding members of
>the FSC either as a Consultant and/or an Agent.
FYI, this is SPAM that has been sent to LUGs worldwide.
Further, you'll find vosn.net mentioned in a number of
anti-SPAM filters.  Does Gelinas still manage the GNHLUG
list?  Can somebody please remove the entry in question?
I guess if I imagined that I had a way to persuade folks
to simply hand me 20% of their income I might consider
SPAMming the planet while draping myself with the Open
Source flag to accomplish it, too.  Maybe we need to
tighten up the GNHLUG list subscription procedure...
[Michael O'Donnell]>>

http://lists.golum.org/pipermail/golum/2002-December/011272.html
<< At 01:43 PM 12/22/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>* Consorcio Software Libre (info5 at csl.cc) [021221 14:20]:
> > We would like to invite you to be a founding members of the FSC either
as a
> > Consultant and/or an Agent....
>
>Fellow GOLUM List Members,
>How do you feel about these posts?  I've had one individual describe
>them as SPAM, but I've not heard other opinions, on list or otherwise.
>
>Jim G
Two posts, same content, two days, two different email addresses listed.
These guys are spamming every Linux mailing list and newsgroup out there.
Not to mention that they aren't mentioning the $250 fee they require in
their FAQ.
Boot the guys, and boot them hard.
Mark Turnage>>

 .